Public forum on 'International Perceptions of Thailand’s Crisis' to be held on July 21
Wed, 15/07/2009 - 15:24 | by prachatai
The forum will be held by Chulalongkorn's Institute of Security and International Studies. Speakers will include President of the FCCT, Executive Director of the American Chamber of Commerce (Thailand), representative of JBIC and the Ambassador of Argentina. Details are below for those interested.
An ISIS Public Forum on
“International Perceptions of Thailand’s Crisis”
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 at 9.30 am – 12.00 pm
The Chumbhot-Pantip Conference Room, 4th Floor Prajadhipok-Rambhaibarni Building
Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University
Henry Dunant Rd., Pathumwan, Bangkok 10330
Agenda
09.00 – 09.30 am Registration and Refreshments
09.30 – 09.40 am Welcome Remarks
Dr. Charas Suwanmala
Dean, Faculty of Political Science,
Chulalongkorn University
09.40 – 11.10 am Speakers
Mr. Marwaan Macan-Markar
Southeast Asia Correspondent
Inter Press Service (IPS)
Ms. Karen Percy
Southeast Asia Correspondent
Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)
Ms. Judy Benn
Executive Director
The American Chamber of Commerce (Thailand)
Mr. Yuhei Ohmi
Chief Representative
Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC), Bangkok
H.E. Mr. Felipe Frydman
Ambassador
The Embassy of the Argentine Republic to Thailand
Moderator
Dr. Thitinan Pongsudhirak
Director, Institute of Security and International Studies
Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University
11.10 am - 12.00 pm Open Discussion
Contact staff for reservation: Tel: 02-218-7432 – 3, fax 02.254.0119, or e-mail: isisthailand@gmail.com
Comments
Sounds good, but I suspect
Sounds good, but I suspect there will be an elephant or two in the room.
Doesn't matter. Hopefully A.
Doesn't matter. Hopefully A. khan will also be there so I can get some recent photos of him.
As to the issues, I guess one might ask exactly what is meant by Thailand's crisis and what is meant by international perceptions. As well, some discussion should be made as to whether such perceptions matter or not. Remember that the FCCT had Thaksin as its guest of honor at a dinner party even after he had insulted the media and already demonstrated he was no friend of free speech.
My repeated question is, as well, why people and organizations are not suing back. Surely there is enough talent to make a stand, a case, and fight this LM onslaught.
International
International perceptions!?
[how do we view thee?
let me count the ways!]
A. prostitution capital of the World
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since 1932 instability>>>
B. several military coups
C. several constitutions
D. only one PM who lasted a full term, however now a fugitive from the law
[street riots!]
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>>>
E. haven for back packers, dead beat ex-pats and/or sex offenders
F. endemic corruption and bribery
G. false arrests of tourists - release on extortion payments
H. terrorist bombings
I. airport closures
J. scamming of tourists
K. recent increases in crimes against tourists [eg whole buses hijacked, rope traps across roads for tourists on motorcycles and more]
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the solution>>
2 houses of Government
A. an 'active' Senate, appointed and operated by the Royal Family [return of the King, but NOT absolute monarchy, NOR constitutional monarchy, either, something in between]
B. a democratic Council of independent Ministers, but NO Prime Minister
[outlawing of political parties - a 'means' test for candidates - each Region would elect their Representatives to the Council - the Council's first order of business would be to Select the Cabinet of Ministers, no PM!]
a 'sharing' of rule by the Royal Family and the People
two ears to listen to the People, 2 arms to help the People
Gary Chandler has mentioned
Gary Chandler has mentioned many of the problems, but not by a long shot has he mentioned them all. I'm no expert, but here's a few more off the top of my head:
L. A ruling class that is above the law
M. Rule by Law instead of Rule of Law
N. A top heavy military with a born to rule mentality
O. Repression, Domination & Plundering by .......
P. An obnoxiously heirarchical society
As to the proposed solution, well that just shows what a SICK JOKE Thailand really is.
Is that 'solution' proposed because you think Thailand has already had its chance at Constitutional Monarchy & Democracy, and it failed, or you just dont believe in that sort of ppolitical system for any country?
Personally, I dont really think Thailand is ready for Plato's "Philosopher Kings' concept, ao maybe they should just give Constitutional Monarchy & Democracy another shot, and throw in Meritocracy, Transparency and Rule of Law for good measure.
I agree that Thailand has
I agree that Thailand has alot of domination, violence, destroying red shirt people by using the lese majeste, many coups, bad elites, etc.
So, revolution by the poor might be an only way to solve all these problems.
For L,M,N,O,P - they can be
For L,M,N,O,P - they can be called causes if you accept that reds are a genuine people movement and not a ragtag of Thaksin fans and assorted opportunists looking for free ride on their back.
Is there any red leader with any credibility left? In Thaksin's days they were all the biggest ass kissers, in April they incited a riot and a hunt for Prime Minister's head. One of them is calling to armed struggle against Thai state now, and none of them accepts any responsibility.
It would be a lot closer to the truth to say that they are using long standing "LMNOP" grievances to advance their own agenda, agenda that is no solution in any sense. I, personally, doubt that red movement would exist, let alone be able to create any sort of a crisis if it wasn't for Thaksin leadeship.
>>>
FCCT members and Thitinan are the main presenters of Thai image on the international stage, and their bias was all too obvious in the past couple of years.
And Thitinan is moderating now, moderating a discussion on perception of an image he created himself. How credible is that? Not as bad as asking Sondhi L but close.
Tourist are starting to warn
Tourist are starting to warn other tourist about the unending scams.
Photos of the Tourist Mafia here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29324583@N05/sets/
here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/sets/
Most of those pictured are Thai Police.
or you just dont believe in
or you just dont believe in that sort of political system for any country?
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Hobby, in answer to your question, the political party system of democracy only created another form aristocracy and/or thuggerism. Democracy, has, and does, work better in some countries and is a most miserable failure in others. I would be glad to see any country get rid of political parties and get rid of the Prime Minister role, letting independant councils govern.
To better understand the model I propose Google and wikipedia the 6 Nations aboriginal democratic system that existed in Native America; a most succesful history of governance.
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Personally, I dont really think Thailand is ready for Plato's "Philosopher Kings' concept, ---------
Why do people always claim somebody said, or meant something, then disagree with what they did NOT say??? I know my ex wife was an expert at it.
Some idiot will read YOUR comment and conclude I proposed a Platoian model, which I did NOT!
Q. no education or direction
Q. no education or direction from SOME or ANY authority that Thai women should NOT consider themselves inferior to farang women. Slapping on baby powder and the taking of WHITENING pills should be outlawed.
chocolate, cinammon, coffee colored skin is BEAUTIFUL!
Gary in Canada: Sorry to put
Gary in Canada: Sorry to put words in your mouth - I actually like Plato's model, but its way too late, or too early, for that in Thailand.
I will look at your proposed system, but in this day & age I dont really see any need for any royal families in active governing in any countries (unless of course they want to subject themselves to the electoral process, and the checks, balances & transparency that should come with such a role:)
Related to the Topic, it is
Related to the Topic, it is NOT just Thailand that is a MESS!
Just look around the World.
For example, guess which country, amongst Developed nations, has the #1 Crime rate, is #20 in per capita high graduations, is #12 on the United Nations Human Development Index and would need every man woman and child to pay $500,000 to recover from complete economic collapse.
Hint: The poiticians, media, courts and citizens of this country have firmly entrenched that wildness is the same as freedom, when actually they are opposites.
To THE original Topic, self
To THE original Topic, self evaluation is a GOOD thing, by individuals or nations.
"International perceptions!?
[how do we view thee?
let me count the ways!]"
---------
I just wanted to make sure they had a LIST of the 'perceptions!'
I do NOT believe, NEITHER the Red Shirts, NOR the Yellow Shirts are the problem makers. They are BOTH the predictable outcomes, victims even, of an, irrefutably, historicly, unstable political structure.
Without some kind of major change it will continue for decades, the names and faces, only, will change.
Out of the 4 options which are debated, only 2 would lead to an improvement in the Societal structures of Thailand.
(Of course, my Plan, is the best of the 4 options) (;+9
uh, I would just like to say
uh, I would just like to say that Thai women do not use whitening power because they want to look like their farang counterpart: they do in order to look like northern Chinese / Korean / Japanese white-skinned ones (the individuals whose appearance is possibly the closest to Eastern Asian mainstream concept of beauty). Most Thai women think farang women are somewhat too big and not very charming. Some of them feel inferior only in terms of cultural background, as they feel Thai educational system is not good enough.
Or at least that's my perception, after 6 years in the kingdom.
Alex: That still doesn't make
Alex: That still doesn't make the whitening craze sensible does it, or do see it differently that they want to emulate some asian concept of beauty instead of a 'western' one?
btw, having lost a close friend to melanoma, I see avoidance of excessive exposure to the sun as VERY SENSIBLE, but dont see skin whitening in the same light.
Alex, so why are the
Alex, so why are the Japanese, Chinese and Korean women doing it?
lol
6 years in the Kingdom compared to 6 minutes on Google
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Clare Hall, University of Cambridge, UK
This article examines the strong preference for light complexions observed among Japanese women. Since the late 1980s, consumption of ‘whitening’ cosmetics has remained at consistently high levels, and a ‘white’ complexion has been considered trendy and desirable in contemporary Japan.
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Chinese women, being the number one consumer of skincare products in Asia, say that white skin will hide other physically unattractive features they might have. It would seem that the age old belief that pale, flawless skin will give you a bountiful life still exists even in an era wherein humans rely on technology to survive.
But why the fuss over pale skin, when Chinese, Japanese and Korean women have already been endowed with pale complexion compared to South Pacific women?
A Japanese proberb said that
A Japanese proberb said that the white skin hides 7 flows of woman's apperance. I think that the whiteness and natural fairness of the skin has always been a criterion of women's beauty in East Asia, while in Thailand, they seemed to prefer cocoa brown skin if you see the description of the beauty of princess Shida. (To my best memory.)
This is the article of Thanong in the Nation. He sometimes writes a speculative stuff, but surely is one of the best reporters in The Nation. (He is articulate, that's why he bacame a target in B Pundit.) I also have a bad feeling. Hope the fortune teller will be wrong.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/07/17/opinion/opinion_30107661.php
Hobby, my post was an attempt
Hobby, my post was an attempt to explain why they do it, but of course that doesn't mean I advocate that practice. In fact I think it's rather dangerous to use whitening products. Personally I tend to prefer women with lighter skin, but I have no problem with dark-skinned women (in fact I even desperately fell in love with an African-American girl at some point).
Eggomaniac, I guess my theory also explains why Koreans and Japanese do it (not everyone who is born in those countries is a living portrait of the "standard beauty"), but as a matter of fact they do not do it to resemble farang women. As for Japanese girls in particular, I think Japan is possibly the only Asian country in which dark skin has been fashionable for a decade-long trend called "ganguro". If you've ever visited 101 store in Shibuya, Tokyo, you know what I'm talking about.
For anyone who thinks Asian women want to look "western"... feel free to keep your ideas, if you want to continue thinking that the whole world still looks up to the Great West to imitate it in everything.
Somsak, thanks for your J-proverb. I like proverbs! About Thais liking cocoa-skinned women, well that might have been in the past, maybe. But you know very well that Thai men nowadays only like white-skinned women, and it's a common joke in Thailand to make fun of girls when they have "dum-dum" skin/complexion.
Alex, yes, it was in the
Alex, yes, it was in the past, I should have written,... and women with honey-like yellowisn complexion (not cocoa-skin) were considered most beautiful. I read a disseration of a Japanese universtiy student on the theme, which concluded it in that way. And I'm almost sure that they got to prefer white skin to their natural color being influenced by Chinese.
You are talking about GANGURO (black face) student girls, right. They are scary.(for me) But it seems that, in most cases, they come back to their worship for white skin when they feel their adloescence is over. I will give you a tip how to tell Japanese women from other nationalities. If you see a woman walking with a parasol on the street of Bangkok, with the probablility of 90 percent, she is Japanese, (and another ten percent is korean.)
If it's not too late I'd like
If it's not too late I'd like to steer back to Gary's original post and some of his subsequent ones:
1. Are not issues L to P to a large extent the causes of issues A to K? If so then should we not be proritising how to tackle L to P.
2. Gary says: "I would be glad to see any country get rid of political parties and get rid of the Prime Minister role, letting independent councils govern.
To better understand the model I propose Google and wikipedia the 6 Nations aboriginal democratic system that existed in Native America; a most succesful history of governance."
This stuff is interesting and may be part of an eventual solution to the long term big issue outlined in 1. But how relevant is it to the here and now? I, for instance, can see great merit in the theoretical transition from socialism to communism to anarchism but if I went around preaching it as a solution to today's problems I would rightly be dubbed a Utopian socialist.
3. Gary says: "Related to the Topic, it is NOT just Thailand that is a MESS!" Yes, but come on Gary, you were pretty quick to come out with a long list which seems to indicate that Thailand has more than its fair share of problems. Moreover these problems seem only to be getting worse, signs of reconciliation are virtually non-existent and the potential for further civil unrest is a daily preoccupation for those living here and concerned for their families.
Sam, of course never too
Sam, of course never too late, and sorry for drifting away with off-topic discourses again. I guess it's more fun, though, when we can stray away from topics from time to time. It keeps forums more lively.
Anyway, I agree with what you say, but I'm probably more disillusioned than you. Human nature pushes men towards selfishness, so in a post-communist society where ideal anarchism is the (non-)system, evil selfish individuals would surely have more chances to subjugate tame idealistic ones, and we would soon be back to square one.
Gary: aboriginal societies don't have technology... do you think step one should be to eliminate anything that works on electricity or engines? I'm ok with respecting native Americans' culture, but frankly I think it's just a little bit too late for it. Unless some huge catastrophe comes and leaves a few millions human alive, deprived of all materialistic things. Even in that case, though, there could be a new core of scientists and businessmen who re-organize the new society into a born-again materialistic one.
I'm rather pessimistic regarding these matters: I believe the human kind is this planet's own "bacteria". We live off the planet's energy and we kill it at the same time. So there are two options: it's either planet Earth reacts and gets rid of us, or we'll destroy it and fade away with it.
and BTW it's SHIBUYA 109 I
and BTW it's SHIBUYA 109 I was talking about, not 101. Mistyped!
See
See http://www.upiasia.com/Politics/2009/07/17/defining_the_crisis_in_thailand/7088/