Friday, 10 September 2010
Thaksin's statement: Upon Hearing The Asset Case’s Result
Sat, 27/02/2010 - 16:07
Today [26 Feb] has marked a history of Thailand’s justice system. The seized asset of more than 40,000 millions was done on a claim that I benefited from higher stock prices due to my being Prime Minister. The surplus was interpreted as wrongdoings, and was entirely seized. This must be a joke to the world. Stock rising as a result of my being Prime Minister? When stocks rise, the entire market does.
Does this resembles the dissolution of Thai Rak Thai Party? Court was used as a tool. Government was well-aware of the coming verdict. The flag pointer and the protector of this government are one same person. I foresaw this bashing. Only how. My conclusion at this point is: when the country’s economy improves, I receive no share. But when assets of my family increase, I am accused of cheating and my assets were seized. Fairly good that they return what was mine before the political years.
The whole stock market rises when it does. It is global economic force, not a result of my premiership. Other enterprises also benefit. TPI. True. PTT. This is most political. I put on a black suit today to mourn. I mourn my own stubbornness when I refused to listen to my wife and my children advising me not to enter politics. I want to serve my country. I feel the need to pay back my fellow citizens. Let me apologize to my family. Political life is real tough. Let me be the very last victim of Thai politics. With true democracy, there will be no more victim.
Power rests with aristocrats, who constantly push the button. Law enforcement runs real fast with the opposite side. Serious lack of international standard. One person can yank the country backward. I wrote a dissertation on Criminal Justice. But I receive no justice. I apologize to good judges who wish to uphold their institution, fearing it may all be destroyed. Because they want to get me, your institution was used for the purpose. I hope things start to get better after they did all they would to me.
I am a sensible person. If you don’t want me in politics, I will back down. I told His Majesty at one time I would not accept premiership. Then the election was nullified, citing a laughable reason of voters having their backs outwardly. New election was set so far apart: December. They couldn’t wait so the coup it was. Prior to the coup, there were several cases of assassination attempts, which didn’t succeed. After the coup, this committee was set up to make outrageous accusations of corruption. General Sondhi, the coup leader, was only a nominal leader. People’s Power Party won the election, to the aristocrats’ great disappointment. Prime Minister Samak was then gotten rid of. The party was also dissolved.
Let me thank all of our supporters who adhere to my request not to show up during the case. You don’t want to be accused of doing all that for me. Let me face it alone. You can be angry, but with no violence. We must be patient and peace-oriented for future generations. For business people, do not enter politics. Business people are prone to get the job done. If you do that, my fate will be yours. If you really want to serve, sell everything before you step in.
I am the only Prime Minister who had been elected twice, consecutively. Let me say that all their accusations result from me performing my duties, systematically. I have no notion of cheating. Never thought of it. Never had a need to do so. And no need to be so greedy either. I put on one wrist watch at a time, not several. Why greedy? All charges of corruption were and are politically-motivated. My wife is a good teacher to our children. Never living in luxury. We no longer have to struggle. I just want to serve my country. I became the very first one whose personal assets were seized. If I had cheated, let me face death in days. If I had not...let me cite this poem to you...
“This land bears witness.
We are student of great guru.
We do wrong, we deserve punishment.
We did not, but punished, may this sword be returned”.
I will continue to seek justice, wherever I am, in or out of the country. Today I receive no justice. Justice is to be sought. May the people judge. Look back at my years of service, not as one scene of a feature film. Look closely and you will see injustice lurking around. I will fight on peacefully. Future generations must be born to and in democracy, justice, and equality.
What has happened to me should be regarded as lessons for Thailand’s democratization. I appreciate all support and genuine concern. Again, I am sorry for my wife and my children.
Thank you very much.
Activity
2010-08-11 08:30
ISIS/ASP Public Forum on “Harnessing the Mekong: Human Security and Regional Stability”
2010-06-30 09:00
Public Forum on The Thai Media in Times of Conflict: A Reflection One Month Following Thailand’s Political Turmoil
2010-06-26 14:00
Invitation for Campaign against Torture
2010-03-21 10:00
Exhibition: ‘Colorful Melody of Nature', Chiang Mai
2010-03-12 09:30
“Art Exhibition on the Disappeared and Their Families” to mark the 6th anniversary disappearance of Somchai Neelapaijit
2010-03-11 09:30
"The Art of Not Being Governed" by Professor James C. Scott
2010-03-10 (All day)
EarthRights International invites local activists to join training in its Mekong School
2010-03-05 09:15
A Buddhist Memorial Service for Professor Ishii Yoneo in Bangkok
Comments
Making Sense of the Supreme
Making Sense of the Supreme Court’s Verdict
So unless and until a real government is elected, one which declares the obvious : that the criminals who throw coups must be put in jail and that the "laws" they enact are criminal acts, it will be first this clique and then that which seek to bankrupt each other... a multi-voiced variation on the theme of one-hand clapping as played in Singapore.
Then if and when such a real government is elected it will have to pay back the Shiniwatra clan 46 billion... plus interest.
@JFL: Seems very likely. FWIW
@JFL:
Seems very likely. FWIW I fully agree with the thrust of your remarks, Thailand is going to have to elect a real government, one who will govern for the people and not as a means of self-enrichment or gaining kudos with the people in the Palace.
In a democracy, the monarchy is a symbolic instrument with no actual power, other than advisory (and advisory means advisory - not the Thai version of the word). The monarchy in Thailand recognises this by the constant refrain that it does not involve itself in politics.
I am sure there is still a family in the wilds of Thailand somewhere with an average IQ of 20, and who still believe that, but in all the conversations I have outside of Bangkok, this myth is no longer believed.
If the Thai elites lived according to the same principles they love to give lip service to, Thailand would be an entirely different society. A rather better one. As it is, the longer this goes on the more likely there is to be serious bloodshed. Increasingly, I see a future for Prem and co as if down the barrel of a rifle.
I suspect it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.
Dear Usedtobeblue,if you
Dear Usedtobeblue,if you really believe that the Monarchy has never involved itself in politics,I think you had better re-read,and remind yourself of past events.An average of a coup every 4 years is not a good record.Yesterday I was viewing a picture of King Bhumipol with 2 "coup makers" at his feet.The caption read "King stops coup makers"So can I ask you why he has stopped some coups,but allowed others to go ahead,some say with his blessings.
อยากเห็นเมืองไทยเจริญ
อยากเห็นเมืองไทยเจริญ
Darren: You appear to have
Darren: You appear to have missed the next paragraph in Usedtobeblue's post:
"I am sure there is still a family in the wilds of Thailand somewhere with an average IQ of 20, and who still believe that, but in all the conversations I have outside of Bangkok, this myth is no longer believed."
...and let us ALL try to
...and let us ALL try to aviod endorsing(wittinly or not) the stereotyping of anyone "outside of Bangkok" as not as wise as Bangkokians.
Accepted Hobby, i need to
Accepted Hobby, i need to re-read!! ..but it might of helped if it was in the same paragraph! "who still believe that"
@Darren: FWIW, I believe that
@Darren:
FWIW, I believe that the changwat Thai is a much superior person in human terms to the Bangkok Thai. Yes it is a generalisation, and it got to be a generalisation for a reason.
On the other hand, it is well documented that for a number of reasons, there are a number of place in Thailand where the average IQ is as low as <70. Hence my ironic comment.
So please, read more carefully. and remember the sparrow: not everyone who shits on you is your enemy and not everyone who gets you out of the shit is your friend. Especially in Thailand.
All humans are equal.IQ is
All humans are equal.IQ is meaningless.
Yes, but some are more equal
Yes, but some are more equal than others.
Thanks Jamie youv'e noticed!
Thanks Jamie youv'e noticed! :)
My eyes are wide open Darren!
My eyes are wide open Darren! :)
@Darren: "All humans are
@Darren:
"All humans are equal.IQ is meaningless."
*sigh*
I said 'superior in human terms'. It must be clear that apart from a nice-sounding platitude, humans are not at all equal, other than in their basic rights as humans. It must surely be equally obvious that measuring IQ is not meaningless.
IQ as it is generally used, is a measure of reasoning and abstraction ability. If it were meaningless then IQ tests would not be a globally-used measure of the intelligence of people. But they are, even if you don't understand why.
IQ is a very useful and accurate indicator of level and direction of human potential. And please. lets not get into any nonsense and off-topic debate about 'different kinds of intelligence' since they're all related and it is only ever the people who think everyone should be the same and wear the same clothes and do the same things that talk about EI and the rest of it. Those and the folk with low IQ but who are bright enough to feel bad about it.
If you have a careful read of the Bangkok Post this week, you will see the Thai average IQ is yet again measured at 88 in contrast to the mean in developed countries of 104. This article was written by a Thai journalist with numbers compiled by the Thai government, who appear also to believe that IQ tests have a purpose. Perhaps you should enlighten them as to the futility of it all, they seem to think the numbers are useful. The Thai numbers show without a doubt the parlous state of Thai education. The numbers have been consistent over the past several years, and are easily understood, so the Thai government could easily make changes but of course they won't - they quite like Thais being below the line in IQ terms for a lot of reasons and are not at all interested in developing their people.
Love to discuss serious matters with you Darren, but on present showing I'm not sure you are quite up to it. Perhaps when you have decided to live in the real world and stop listening to the chattering voices.
Sorry I don't match up to
Sorry I don't match up to your high standards(perhaps you are right,myIQ is too low to be worthwhile)......but I feel if you had the benefit of regular access to UK television,you might have been able to watch the documentry I viewed RECENTLY viewed about IQ. I will not explain everything to you as it might take me forever to convince you,but the thrust of the programme was why,for instace,black race people ended at the lower scale of the IQ tree.The conclusion by the top UK specialist'S was that IQ is designed to help those who are westernised and modernised.I think you should catch up on your facts.
The programme was made by
The programme was made by jounalist Raggi Omar.
Wekll, it's off-topic but
Wekll, it's off-topic but what the hell.
Your response is complete tosh, and you havent even examined it for rationality before trotting it out.
IQ tests were designed to test rationality, logic and abstraction. Whilst it is true that the white caucasian cultures have a greater focus on these aspects of the human mind than (say) the Swahili, to say the tests were designed to helo those who are westernised and modenised is just claptrap, and frankly you are just looking fooolish. Kit korn put would be my advice.
I really don't want to add to your humiliation, however, according to the wealth of nations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#National_IQ_estimates), the top 4 average IQ nations are: Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore, which supports the broad conclusions drawn in the much demonised book 'the bell curve' when it said that the highest IQ's were to be found in the East Asian nations. Not sure how that quite squares with your assertion about IQ tests favouring westernised populations, but I am quite sure you don't know either so that's alright.
Don't like the wealth of nations? Then you're stuck really since it is the only accepted test of comparitive national scores. Fortunately for the success of my point, Thailand tested its average population IQ in 2007, 2008, 2009 and will do so again in 2010, desperately trying to find a survey mechanism that produces a higher score. So far it has been pretty uniform at 87-88, though the wealth of nations optimistically actually has it at 91. The last survey I saw the results fr demonstrated that there are pockets of people in the north and north-east of Thailand where the average IQ in is the 60's range. Just how the government and the palace likes it.
Look, don't take this the wrong way because you seem like an earnest young man, but psychology is what I do for a living so you really are on a hiding to nothing. Best if you stop now. To assist you, this is my last post on the subject so you can tell everyone it was me who piked out and not you.
No.....she must have missed
No.....she must have missed the programme,.....ha ha ha ha!!! BYE:)
Love to discuss serious
Love to discuss serious matters with you Darren, but on present showing I'm not sure you are quite up to it.
There do seem to be a few people in this world who view themselves as apart from the rest, and so look for criteria that confirm their conviction. Skin color, IQ, religion... almost anything will do... as long as the measure chosen puts those who perceive themselves apart, apart. Allows them to dismiss out of hand opinions not consonant with their own, implicitly superior, opinions. Thailand seems to have at least its share.
Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza said "The classification into races has proved to be a futile exercise for reasons that were already clear to Darwin." And Noam Chomsky, who is probably himself set apart by the IQ criterion, says that the variation in human intelligence is probably not worth measuring, that there just isn't enough variation to make it worthwhile.
Noam Chnomsky... Yes, indeed
Noam Chnomsky...
Yes, indeed he has said a few very useful and (semingly to me) correct things.
But that IQ is not worth measuring is not one of them (again seemingly to me). As I was taught in business management 101, if you aren't measuring it, you aren't managing it. It therefore follows that in order to manage anything, you must have a means of measuring it, as politically incorrect as establishing facts may be to some of our more sensitive souls. Since you you cannot manage the IQ of a population unless you are managing it, measuring IQ by some means and risking the odium of people who would rather not risk knowing what theirs is but wish not to appear defensive and therefore object to everyone's being measured, becomes quite important. After all, the average in the developed world is 104, the average in Thailand is 88. Perhaps these things are, after all related. As politically incorrect and as unacceptable as that may be to some.
The argument that taking the IQ score of a population and analysing why it is low (if it is low) and what implications that 'lowness' may have for a nation, is somehow wanting to set me or anyone else apart is manifestly absurd.
That post is just not up to your normally high standard of objectivity and thought JFL. As an old schoolmaster once told me whilst trying to leverage my IQ up from what it was to what it eventually became, "only 2 out of 10, must try harder".
Still, smile. It's a lovely day, the bords are singing, the grass is growing, God is in his Heaven working on the Thaksin thing and the touchy-feelies are a-touching-and-a-feeling for all they're worth.
this from the man who once
this from the man who once said he did not think democracry was all that important for thailand. what a shameless pathological liar. thief
"this from the man who once
"this from the man who once said he did not think democracry was all that important for thailand. what a shameless pathological liar. thief"
Yep. Agreed. Thaksin is a liar and a thief without a single doubt. Also a cheat, an abuser of human rights, an obsessive chaser after status and I have no doubt whatever a singularly unpleasant man, whose ass I would cheerfully kick of ever I met him.
But he was the legitimately elected shameless pathological liar and thief. And he was the illegally deposed pathological liar and thief, deposed by other pathological liars and thieves, for we must not forget the nature of many if not most Thai pooyays.
But he was the legitimately
But he was the legitimately elected shameless pathological liar and thief...
As was Barack Obama... usually too lawyerly to be caught out in his lies, relying upon his charm and appealing to the fears and playing upon the revulsions just below the surface of the electorate, who nonetheless has lied outright on occasion :
... elected in a land where presumably the IQ is more nearly 104 rather than 20 or 88, or thereabout.
And he did go to the banks himself with a vengeance, didn't he, both on his way to and back home from accepting his Nobel Peace Prize, presumably awarded now to those who in the midst of their imperial lust and orgasmic warfare, make all the rest of humanity most nostalgic for and prayerful for Peace!
Barack - that very sympathetic and appealing liar, murderer, and war-criminal - was the choice of most of the Hi-IQ crowd, I would venture. There are some remarkable similarities between the Hi-So and Hi-IQ crowds.
I think there are at least two facets to this IQ business, the one being "intelligence", which not just Chomsky but Albert Einstein and others generally thought to be intelligent play down as being accorded too much attention, and the other - being something that "tests of intelligence" refer to.
I think that an IQ as measured by "tests" is a measure of one's ability to take IQ tests... which may not be related at all to the former sense of the word "intelligence".
It may be that what is measured by IQ tests is related to one's ability to "go along" to "get along" in "modern society", and so a high test score is treasured by those who think it is important to do so.
Others may question whether going along and getting along is an intelligent thing at all for any of us to do at this stage of the "play" in our "modern societies".
And there are still those unreconstructed few who, assigning themselves a high degree of the same, do regard with undue reverence the sort of intelligence downplayed by Chomsky and Einstein, as a sort of a stand-in for déclassé discriminators such as race and religion.
I'm glad to hear that you are not among them, Mr Once Upon A Time Blue.
I,ve got a nasty feeling
I,ve got a nasty feeling prachatai.com is being invaded by Thaivisa's wicked witch of the north!!! :)
"As was Barack
"As was Barack Obama..."
Irrelevant.
"I think there are at least two facets to this IQ business, the one being "intelligence", [...] , and the other - being something that "tests of intelligence" refer to."
Indeed, I agree, but since IQ tests are the best test we have we are sort of stuck with it. It helps that the results accord with observable experience. The plain fact is I see much more stupidity and immaturity in Thailand than anywhere else in the world I have lived, and I am sure this is not a coincidence.
"which not just Chomsky but Albert Einstein and others generally thought to be intelligent play down as being accorded too much attention."
Which proves my point. If you've got it, it isnt really important. The relevance and importance of IQ and IQ tests only seem to be worth challenging if you don't have a very high IQ. Thanks for the observation though, I couldn't have done better than to make the same point.
I am out of this one, no more points need be scored, we all know what happened.
have a pleasent trip :)
have a pleasent trip :)
BBC Science; There is more to
BBC Science; There is more to intelligence than IQ; For many pscologists it seems Absurd to reduce the whole of human intelligence to the single score obtained on an IQ test.Instead these pscologists emphasise multiple intelligences.Someone who may be skilled at learning languagesmay not be musically talented.Whats more our intelligence seems to vary according to how familiar we are with particular situations.One group of ten year oldstreet vendors in Brazil with very little schooling ,were adept at working out what to charge for candy,and were good at giving the right change.However,they did much worse when given identical addition and subtraction problems that were presented like traditional school tasks.
I'm not as stupid as I look.
I'm not as stupid as I look. :)
Apologies for hogging the
Apologies for hogging the prachatai web board,but some of you may have recognised Usedtobeblues writings,that appear to be very similar to a renound Thaivisa/Nation regular/moderator i.e.... "The plain fact is I see much more stupidity and immaturity in Thailand than anywhere else in the world..." ect ect...If I am correct then I advise you all to take what she/he says with a pinch of salt.She/he is a paid to to do this.BEWARE.
I'm not so sure about the
I'm not so sure about the Thai Visa link - most of those moderators are more yellow than the yellows - for instance they recently removed links to an article by McCargo (see post #30 here)
I think the clear implication of UsedtobeBlue's post on Thailand is that he must be criticizing the way education (and democracy) have NOT been allowed to develop over several decades due a succession of rogues being in power, most of whom have been given cover by you know who.
IMO, Thaksin was no worse than the other rogues, and in many ways he was better.
His popularity was the big difference, and that combined with his not playing ball with the old network and trying to gain some control over them including the military, led to the decision to remove him - his greed and arrogance played right into their hands, and they were then able to infiltrate/suppoprt a genuine protest movement and the rest is history.
Regarding IQ, I understand where Usedtobeblue is coming from in trying to find a yardstick to measure & compare poulations, but I agree with JFL and Darren that there are different forms of 'intelligence' - I have observed many a person with a high IQ's but who have little commonsense or EI.
I'd like Usedtobeblue to stick around here - JFL , Darren, Dr J, and me need the company:)
@Hobby" - lured me back in...
@Hobby" - lured me back in... (this message broken into 2 parts).
Part 1:
I have gone to some lengths to point out that a low IQ does not mean obnoxious (or moronic) , in Thailand it is rather the reverse of the situation in other countries, the poor and under-intelligent are the good guys imho. My criticism is that the Thai government quite likes its people to be under-intelligent, since this provides a ready supply of low-skilled labour and sex workers.
It'ss a cop out to point to Ei as an alternative measure of intelligence, all 'kinds' of intelligence are related and people need to be considered as a whole. Too often I hear the comment "Thais may be not smart but they have a high EI", which is just not true. The people saying it have pictures of specific people in their mind, and since they are invariably unable to point to any evidence for their claims, the argument really falls apart right there.
I have as high a regard and respect for people as anyone, the better they behave the higher the respect that is due. In my experience, the changwat Thai may not be as smart as the townie Thai but he is a better person, according to my measure anyway. But being a better person does not change the fact that also in general, he is less intelligent than he should be, and intelligence can be improved (easier in childhood, harder when an adult), so not doing so smacks of incompetence of agenda on behalf of the government. We should surely not be afraid to face what is obvious without trying to pretend it doesn't exist - yes?
I have no time for the 'politically incorrect' attack. If Thailand has an average IQ of 88 then Thais are on average less intelligent than South Koreans at 104, that''s all there is about it really, but of course the bleeding hearts clamour to criticise the stats and the people who know about them alike in their rush to deny them because they think it shouldn't be real, ignoring the very unfortunate fact that it is actually real. Not very bright.
Part 2: The future for
Part 2:
The future for Thailand as a developing nation (eternally developing), is to develop its schooling. Thai culture is a dead-weight which perpetuates the sakdina system and enshrines privilege on the basis of birthright fear. There is surely no place in the 21st century for a feudal culture system, and this is a feudal culture system which suits those in power very nicely thank you, but which is already changing around them without their recognising it. Rome is starting to burn and the useless buggers keep fiddling and remembering the glorious past.
As for having anything to do with ThaiVisa, that also is not correct; Darren appears to have something of a knack for being incorrect. In my view, ThaiVisa is a collection of uneducated rednecks moderated by generally under-educated people, many of whom appear to have have serious problems. But then Darren doesn't really think I have a connection with TV, it is just another way he can find to ignore the input on the basis that he doesn't like it but cannot argue against it. It is deceitful of course but it's a common strategy, and mostly done unconsciously without conscious intent. A defence mechanism if you will - a mild form of the ad-hominem attack where the messenger is criticised for the perecived unacceptability of the message. I do not criticise Darren for being what he is and doing what life as taught him to do wit opinions contrary to his own that he cannot refute rationally. As Napoleon is reputed t have said "never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence".
I am once again reminded of the sage advice, ' Don't wrestle with pigs - you get all muddy and it only annoys the pig:.
Gosh, Mr Used to Be... you
Gosh, Mr Used to Be... you certainly seem to know all about Darren!
Of course you know nothing at all about him... he is just the foil for your projections. I must admit that you seem to me to be a rather unattractive personality... supercilious, and given to conflating analytic constructs, fictions, with the reality they imperfectly abstract.
I won't speculate any further as to your motives since, as I've said, I find your speculations on Darren's so unattractive.
You're certainly welcome here. You may well find me as unattractive as I find yourself, but it's a big world and there's room for all of us. Hobby likes you, so you're not friendless here.
Talk to you later.
Part 1: "Gosh, Mr Used to
Part 1:
"Gosh, Mr Used to Be... you certainly seem to know all about Darren!"
Well no, I know nothing of him personally, but I can infer quite a lot about him from his responses, as I can about you from yours, which are different. This is what I do for a living, but I can be wrong thogh it doesn't happen often where people are concerned. Let me see. Oh yes, I remember being wrong... in 2006. yes, that was it. I made a mistake. I thought I was wrong about something but it turned out I was right after all, so - a mistake.
"Of course you know nothing at all about him... he is just the foil for your projections. I must admit that you seem to me to be a rather unattractive personality... supercilious, and given to conflating analytic constructs, fictions, with the reality they imperfectly abstract."
Several linguistic and psychological devices in here, none of them very subtle - but just a matter of practice I'm sure. Interesting though, that you again resort to ad-hominem argument rather than try unsuccessfully to fault the substance of what I said. Avoids the need to make solid argument I suppose.
Part 2: "I won't speculate
Part 2:
"I won't speculate any further as to your motives since, as I've said, I find your speculations on Darren's so unattractive."
I wonder why you feel the need to defend another ad-hominem debater. Oh yes. That's it. You quite like him as a person (or at least the persona he projects onto your screen). I wonder if you understand how that happened. Probably not. Anyway, you cannot defend him on matters of substance yet you feel an emotional need to defend him on some grounds so you fall back on feelings of personal compatibility and off you go. Yes, that's it, but there's something else too. You identify with him, having been demolished in a similar way and not liking it - I'm sure you remember. Pity. You have a keen insight JFL, which is why I have agreed with your points on occasion, yet under that is an insecurity born of an inability in your past to persuade people to accept you as an intellect in your own right. They were probably quite wrong but the damage already done - right?
"You're certainly welcome here."
Well thanks, but is that really your decision?
"You may well find me as unattractive as I find yourself, but it's a big world and there's room for all of us."
I outgrew the need to consider personal likes and dislikes some time ago, as you will probably do in due course. I am me. Some people like me, others, like yourself, don't. It's all the same to me and none of it matters since I don't actually need people to like me or otherwise. I am in fact fascinated by the need of many people to be loved, it is so primeval and yet so often destructive.
My Mum loves me though.
"Hobby likes you, so you're not friendless here."
There it is again, the importance you attach to having friends. For myself I am more emotionally independent, if I need a friend I can buy a dog.
"Talk to you later."
I have no doubt you will feel that need again, and I have no doubt you will again indulge that need without really understanding where it comes from. Still, if you like being a responder rather than an understander. Personally I think you're worth more than that but it's up to you of course.
In the meantime, the birds sing, the grass grows,and - well, you know. Really must be my last on the matter because it is seriously off-topic, feel free to claim the last word if you need to...
The PPT site has published Ji
The PPT site has published Ji on the verdict
I must admit that I am growing much more fond of Ji Ungpakorn since he has made it plain that he views HM King Bhumiphol as the victim rather than the author of the "network monarchy".
And he unapologetically embraces his socialism!
Yes, I have come to admire him again, as I did before his elliptical hiatus to the damp and dreary Isle and his subsequent nasty personal attacks on HM the King. I guess he is more farsighted than nearsighted, and can see things more clearly at arms' length.
Or at least he sees is what I see myself at this point in time, and believing my own eyes I believe him.
I don't think anyone on the
I don't think anyone on the "outside" knows exactly who is pulling the strings with "Network Monarchy"..If the King is a "victam" then unfortuneately for him this is no excuse(i.e.The Buck Stops Here),as he had and has the power to change things.Da Torpedo ect ect..His age and health may now be considered to blame for some presentday inaction,but I agree with Giles Ji Ungpakhorn and the Economist that the sufficincy economy is "Humbug".
I don't think anyone on the
I don't think anyone on the "outside" knows exactly who is pulling the strings with "Network Monarchy"..If the King is a "victam" then unfortuneately for him this is no excuse(i.e.The Buck Stops Here),as he had and has the power to change things.Da Torpedo ect ect..His age and health may now be considered to blame for some presentday inaction,but I agree with Giles Ji Ungpakhorn and the Economist that the sufficincy economy is "Humbug".
I think the present,
I think the present, "consumer economy" is "Humbug"... a Ponzi scheme with the seeds of its own demise built in from the start. So I am interested in alternatives.
The sufficiency economy gets beaten down by the "left" because they see its embrace by the right as the cynical fraud that it is. I think that embracing a system that requires exponential growth is a cynical fraud, of the Après moi le Déluge variety.
The most attractive thing about Thailand, and the thing most worth studying, has always seemed to me to be the moo baan - หมู่บ้าน - which is certainly the inspiration for the sufficiency economy.
I also like JFL and
I also like JFL and Darren:)
For many differences I think continued dialogue can lead to understanding
(doesn't work with Stan/Trep, but I would not put UsedtobeBlue anywhere near that category)
I don't buy the victim
I don't buy the victim argument anymore.
If one looks at the endorsements, appointments, LM jailings, exilings, pronouncements etc over a long period of time I dont think the victim argument stands up (unless the wisdom aspect of the legend is also challenged)
If he is a victim now, then he also could not have believed the legend himself, because it seems clear that there have been times where he could have turned the tables.
I don't buy it either,
I don't buy it either, Thaksin is a predator not prey.
We should all understand that Thaksin is driven by obsessive needs. he is a thief, a cheat and in my opinion a complete asshole, in a country where the ruling classes are obsessive, thieves, cheats and complete assholes.
What we see now is a falling out among thieves, Thaksins crime was being more popular than those at the very top, and they set out to teach him a lesson. It is not justice or most politicians and army and police generals and a huge number of business people and bureaucrats would already be in jail awaiting his arrival.
This is a lesson in Thai culture - to reinforce a fear of those in power. The lesson is intended to make sure Thaksin cannot again become more popular than those for whom popularity and love are considered nothing less than a birthright. Also that there will not be another Thaksin.
Personally I think it is a huge miscalculation, perhaps born of the legendary Thai pooyay arrogance and sense of impunity. We all have those moments in life when we look back and think "Bugger, I wish I hadn't done that...". I think many in the amart will be thinking exactly that within 5 years, because among Thaksin's many other vices, he is not one to accept or even contemplate defeat. For that he should be admired, asshole or not, and of course we should all remember that he was the Thai choice of asshole not once but several times, either in person or by proxy. better an asshole than a treasonous asshole perhaps?
I'd rather give this quote
I'd rather give this quote from Giles:
I don't see any agreement with people fond of this ideology any time soon.
However legitimate theory it could be on its own, as far as Thailand is concerned, it's a non-starter, and Giles must have gone barking mad if he expects anyone here to take his "analysis" seriously.
td
Thais’ Distrust of the Uneducated Runs Deep1
1. In the book, the authors reveal that the Thai part of the survey was carried out by the King Prajadhipok’s Institute, which they describe as “an independent, publicly-funded research institute chartered by the Thai Parliament.”
NACC mulls fresh legal action
NACC mulls fresh legal action against Thaksin
The conversion of the Thai Judiciary into the tool of the Bangkok "elite", one used simply to bankrupt any political opposition to the "elite" à la the Lees' Judiciary in Singapore, seems complete.
As the Thai and Burmese Military move toward their own convergence, each working toward a permanent 'civilian' puppet regime to mask its brutal, barely behind-the-scenes dominance, the days ahead seem bleak indeed in Suvarnabhumi.
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